Pastor Darrell Cox, Lead Pastor of Trinity Worship Center, Part 1

When I voted for the Administrative Council at Trinity I realized that I didn't really know most of the men on that sheet. I thought it would be beneficial to interview each one of them and post it so everybody in the Trinity family could get to know them as well. After some thought, I decided to make a run through our entire pastoral staff. I had the opportunity to interview Darrell Cox on Thursday, Jan 14th for about 45 minutes. In this interview we were able to cover a lot about who Darrell is and how he got to Burlington, NC and Trinity Worship Center. It is hard to convey the nuance of Darrell's answers in text, but I hope you will trust me when I say I have probably never met a more genuinely humble person. He answered all of my questions without hesitation and was not afraid to share some seemingly private moments about his journey to ministry and the difficulties he has had. We didn't get to finish all the questions, so, another part will be coming soon. If you have any burning questions you have always wanted to ask Darrell; leave them in the comments. I won't guarantee I will ask him, but I will give it a look and see if it fits with my other questions. If there is something in the following text that doesn't make any sense when you read it: it's my fault! Not Darrell's. Enjoy!

Darrell Cox is the lead pastor of Trinity Worship Center. He has held that position since 1997. He has been married to Debbie Bond Cox since 1985 and they have 2 children: Mary Beth and Braxton. Darrell has a BS in Economics from Virginia Tech, a BA in Religion from Emmanuel College, and an M.Div. from Erskine Theological Seminary.

Brian: Is your M.Div. degree just a general religious studies degree?
Darrell: The M.Div. is what most pastors get a graduate degree in. They're probably going to go for an M.Div., like in the United Methodist Church that is sort of the door opening pastoral degree. It's a 3 year graduate degree, so it's a very broad degree. You are going to do the languages, the historical stuff. You are going to do the theological stuff, and a lot of overview stuff.

Brian: Did you some biblical counseling or pastoral counseling and that sort of thing?
Darrell: I think I did one class. I'll tell you, with an M.Div. you don't get the classes you wish you had. The administrative kinds of things, leadership, all that stuff, that really I think is crucial for pastoral ministry. But it's a general overview I think of pastoral ministry, a 3 year degree.

Brian: So, let's back up a little bit; your family is from Virginia, right? Your parents and your family are from Virginia, is that correct?
Darrell: Rooted in Virginia, moved to North Carolina in the 50's for work. I grew up in North Carolina. I'm not a Virginian, my wife is. But, I went Virginia Tech because I had family up there and I was working for a company out of college that transferred me to Debbie's hometown, so that's how we met. And then we spent some years in Virginia.But, I'm a Carolinian.

Brian: Davidson county, right?
Darrell: Davidson, yeah.

Brian: Your went there for your dad's work, is that correct?
Darrell: Dad moved there from the farm just to find work. There was work down here and there wasn't up there. The mountains of Virginia, you know, on the farm, there was nothing for a young guy. So he comes to Lexington for 90 cents an hour. He puts 4 kids through college. He never made more than 10 dollars an hour in his life.
Brian: Wow! A different time.
Darrell: Back when you could do that.

Brian: Did you have hobbies as a kid?
Darrell: I loved basketball, I loved, oh my gosh, I was an entrepreneur, always selling stuff as a kid. Picking up bottles back in the day when you could pick up bottles and take them to the grocery store and sell them. I was always picking up bottles all over the place and riding my bike. I had chickens, trying to sell the eggs. That was a failed venture. You can't make money with chickens. So, yeah, I was just always refinishing antiques and just, you know, I was working when I was 12 years old. So, I just always worked. I tried to make my way. But, there is an entrepreneurial spirit in my family, on my dad's side of the family. A lot of entrepreneurs. As a kid, I focused a lot on that and I was big into basketball.
Brian: I can't imagine that you would be called on to play basketball. You're so tall.
Darrell: Yeah!

Brian: Do you have any as an adult? I think I've heard you talk about that in the pulpit, that you work at home.
Darrell: Yeah, you have to be entrepreneurial to grow a ministry. There's so many of those traits; the drive, just being tenacious, wanting to grow, wanting to do well, wanting to expand, you know, looking for excellence, looking for a better way to do things. That entrepreneurial spirit has to be a part of a pastor that's growing a church. So, yeah, I think that's carried over. The whole business background has been helpful here. Just understanding business, understanding that world. And my son is an entrepreneur and I've had businesses on the side. Don't now. There's still that spirit.

Brian: I imagine you have, probably, a lot of different skill sets you need to operate in the position you do. Especially with a church this size.
Darrell: Yeah, it's so broad, Brian. The ability to sit down with someone across the table. The ability to sit down with a bank and talk their language. Leadership, I think that's the biggest thing, the biggest skill that's required and I'm not so great at it. Just leading leaders. Because I have all these leaders that need direction and need my time and need focus. The strategies that leaders have to employ. And the teaching. The ability to teach, the ability to inspire, and then at the same time trying to keep your spiritual life healthy and your time with God. A lot of pastors don't figure it out. That don't figure out how to spend their time. Especially if you are growing a church. In a bigger church, a pastor's role has to change significantly. You cannot be with everybody, you can't pay attention to everything. You pay attention to sort of the top tier of things and everything sort of flows down from there.

Brian: Did you grow up Christian?
Darrell: Yes. Grew up in this movement.
Brian: In the Pentecostal holiness movement?
Darrell: Absolutely, yeah. I'm third generation. My wife is fourth generation. This is our heritage. I had an opportunity to...because I pastored a Methodist church when I was in seminary. I had an opportunity to stay there. They wanted me to stay there. I probably could have had a good career there. But, I felt called to the IPHC. God doesn't put you; God doesn't plant you and berth you into things by accident. Debbie and I both felt there was a purpose that we were born into this. Our lives have been shaped by this and so, we had something to give back. We felt like we could probably come back and make it better. I hope we have. But, both of us are blessed to be born in a Christian home, to have very strong, solid Christian parents.

Brian: That's awesome. That foundation is very important I think if it's available to you. I am playing catch-up at 35 years old.
Darrell: I don't think people like me understand the blessing of Christian heritage. And most of us squander it to be honest with you.

Brian: Did you have a moment when you knew that you were saved or was it just something you knew from when you were a kid?
Darrell: That's the tough thing about growing up in a Christian heritage. Many of us don't know that moment, so we can't point to that marker.
Brian: Yeah, I find that odd because I have asked Amber (my wife) that when I first got saved, because I know the day, I know the hour. But, Amber grew up Christian and doesn't know.
Darrell: Yeah, I think it can work that way in your journey. There maybe is not that crisis experience but your salvation is just this collection of experiences and you can't point to a point. But, I know that I had crisis experiences as a boy where God intersected my life at camps as a very young boy and I think those experiences with the Lord were formative. I don't have that kind of story where I was immersed in drugs and I was in another world. I was just always knew that He loved me and I loved Him, even though I know I haven't been perfect. I cannot tell you a day, I cannot. I just know that my life is a collection of God experiences and I just grew up knowing that I was saved. I did have, as a Pentecostal, crisis experiences where I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. Those kinds of real experiences that were absolutely life forming and life changing for me.

Brian: Was there a particular attitude or behavior of your parents that influenced you growing up?
Darrell: You know, just an appreciation for the church, loved the church. A desire to be in the house of the Lord on the Sabbath day, honoring the Sabbath to a greater, a more legalistic degree than we do today. Just in the sense that they wouldn't buy anything on the Sabbath, they wouldn't go to a restaurant on the Sabbath, you didn't do anything, you didn't work. You really honored the Sabbath. So it was just this sense that we really loved the church. This is what we're about, this is what we do. We served there. I grew up in a little more legalistic background, not terribly, but just the sense of our lives reflect our faith. Holiness was a big part of who they were. They didn't drink alcohol, they didn't smoke cigarettes or partake in those kinds of things, you know, they didn't swear, were good to people, they read their Bibles in front of us, we prayed at every meal. My mother prayed with me every night when I went to bed. Just living out Christ-like lives had quite an impact on me. I've always loved the church.

Brian: We already talked a little about your religious schooling. But, before that you got a BS in Economics from Virginia Tech. What kind of work did you do? What was that in specifically? 
Darrell: It was in economics in general. The goal was banking. I wanted to get into business. I was an entrepreneur as a child. I worked always, saved money, had money. Family on my dad's side were entrepreneurs, they had money, they had bankers on his side of the family. I wanted to be like that. I wanted to have that kind of life, I wanted to have a nice house and drive a nice car like they do because I didn't as a child have any of that. They were factory workers and we lived in a little house with one bathroom. 4 kids, one bathroom. A little frame house. We still lived there. I was like, I want more for my life. So, I went to Virginia Tech and majored in economics. To be quite frank with you, this is sort of funny, John F. Kennedy majored in economics. He was a hero of mine, so I majored in economics. But I knew it would lead to a financial career. I worked for a finance company my first job. 8,000 dollars a year. I worked there for about 3 years. The company transferred me to Debbie's hometown. I got into banking because she was into banking. She knew some people that knew some people. So, I broke into the banking world there and worked my way up. I was an AVP (assistant vice president). Then they moved me into commercial lending. I was managing branches and then they moved me into commercial lending in downtown Norfolk. I worked directly for the president of the bank. That is where my career was headed. I was certainly on an upward trajectory when God called me.

Brian: That was my next question, so just keep going.
Darrell: 30 years old. Started just feeling dissatisfied with the suit and tie world and rich clients and managing their lending and got tired of the parties and having to hang out with them in the evenings and having lunch with them. I was more drawn to the street people in Norfolk. I was more drawn to people who were hurting. I started spending my lunch hour walking the street in my suit and tie praying with homeless people, buying them bus tickets. Getting taken advantage of. But, it was just my heart. God began to draw me away from the desk and the money and towards something different. He intersected my life. You talk about those crisis moments. I can point to the night in Portsmouth in our church where I met Debbie and where we were married. It was during a revival service one night that God directly spoke to me as I sat in the pew and He said; "I'm calling you one more time to be a pastor. This is the last time. I'm never going to call you again. I'm never going to bother you again to do what I created you to do." I knew at that moment that I had to leave banking. I had to obey. I was afraid not to, to be honest with you, because He said this was going to be the last time. My grandfather was a pastor and had planted 7 churches. And he was an entrepreneur as well and I just felt since I was a young boy that this was in my blood. I had always felt I had the heart of a pastor. In fact, today, when I meet up with old chums, old childhood friends, high school friends and they ask me what I'm doing, I tell them I am a pastor. Almost all of them say; "I'm not surprised. I thought you would be a pastor, just your heart." So, anyway, I began to pray about that because it was a lot to give up and a lot to lose. To walk away from what we had. I was driving a Mercedes, nice office, and suit and tie everyday and a prestigious job and people looked up to that. Had a nice house in a nice neighborhood. Just prayed and fasted about what God was telling me to do. I became more and more disenchanted with being a banker which was my lifelong dream. I knew that God had called me to pastor. At the end of the day, this is what I'm on the earth to do. I told Debbie and she said; "Oh, man!" I took some time and prayed and fasted. To be sure. That's what I tell young people who come to me and say; "I'm going to quit doing this and I'm going to go to Bible school." I'm like, the best way to know if this is real is time. If your passion for this doesn't diminish with time, then you know that God is calling you. It's not an emotional thing, it's not a whim. If He will not let you go, then you can be sure. But, I tell them, be sure. You take the time and be sure. There are times in ministry that the only thing that is going to keep you in it is the call. And so for me there have been so many times that the only thing that keeps me going, that has kept me from resigning here, and I have resigned many times; I've got the letters still in my files, just ready to give it and it always comes back to that night in the church where God said; "I'm calling you to be a pastor." And it can always go back to; I sold everything and gave up everything we had and took a risk of going back to school and living on nothing. So that's why I do what I do. It's the call. At the end of the day, that is what keeps us going. That's what happened. I went to Emmanuel college because God called me there. I didn't have to go there. I already had a degree. I could have gone straight to graduate school, but He called me. I mean, the call to Emmanuel college was as real to me as the call to the pastorate. He wanted me there in that place, because there were some people there. Specifically, the guy who is now the bishop of the IPHC was the pastor of the church in Franklin Springs where Emmanuel college is.
Brian: That is an IPHC school, correct?
Darrell: That is an IPHC school and there is an IPHC church, really on the grounds. Doug Beacham was the pastor there and so our lives intersected and he took me on staff and let me preach for him and he just believed in me. That changed the trajectory of my life. And the reason I'm here today is because of the connections that some people in Franklin Springs had here and connections he had. So now I know God wanted me specifically at that place for those 2 years. The journey down to graduate school and pastoring a Methodist church for 3 years taught me how to be a pastor and taught me how to preach. I had more preaching responsibilities there than I do here. I was preaching 3 sermons a week there. And going full time to graduate school. It taught me how to not sleep at night and stay up getting ready for sermons or studying. At the end of graduate school I didn't know where to go. The people down there wanted me to stay in Georgia and pastor the Methodist church. I knew I wanted to come back to the IPHC. I didn't know where there would be a place for me. But, again, there were some people here that knew some people in Georgia and that's how I got connected with this church.

Brian: Erskine, I looked this up, is associated with the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church. So it's a little bit different. Reformed theology is a little bit different.
Darrell: Right. It's a lot different, but I loved some aspects of reformed theology that I just love. I loved the assurance. I loved the sovereignty of God. I love the whole thing the Presbyterians have for His sovereignty and that they're sure. There is joy in that. There is so much joy and so much freedom in that, that I love. And I still love. And there is a great argument for reformed theology. I mean, I know those arguments. I wrote a paper on Arminianism versus reformed theology and it's like, I can argue for both of these so well. At the end of the day, I just, what I love, what reformed theology teaches a good ole' Pentecostal like me is that I can be sure of my salvation. I can be sure that God's called me, that He predestined me and that He chose me. He's not going to let me go just because I'm not perfect. But they respected my theology and there were a lot of Pentecostals that go to Erskine, even to this day. A lot of my friends and buddies were Pentecostals. It's a conservative branch of the Presbyterian church. They love the Lord and they hold fast to holiness still, without being legalistic. Good people.

Brian: Was there something, a subject, in particular that interested you in your ministry schooling? Systematic theology or something? Or was is just, "I've got to do this, so I'm doing it"?

Darrell: I'll be honest with you. I'm not a great theologian. I'm more interested in the practical aspects of the ministry. The day to day leadership. I'm more interested in that aspect of things. I was a very good student. I studied hard. But, I'll just be honest with you, for me to sit and read Barth and Bultmann, I'll just be honest with you man; have you ever read those guys?
Brian: Some, yeah.
Darrell: Honestly, I can sit there and I can nod my head, but I'm just not smart...I don't think I'm smart enough to follow those guys very well and really understand where they're coming from all the time. Systematic theology is a bit easier for me. Even to this day I will still pull down my Millard Erickson, Baptist guy. I'll still pull down my Erickson's systematic theology and just read theology. Just to brush up. Just to remember the arguments and the views. Probably systematic theology and anything having to do with the practical aspects of ministry. The preaching classes I love. We had a guy named Heinson who was with Hollywood Presbyterian Church in California for many years and was just a master in the pulpit. Yeah, that kind of thing I enjoyed, the communication part of it. I'm not a Brad. Brad is more of the, he can get into the theology and he can really talk the theology and you can too. But, I'm not as cerebral.

Brian: I think you talked about this a little bit because you said God called you to Emmanuel. But, I think the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements tend to be really experience driven. People might say; "Why get educated? You have a calling from God. That's all you need." What do you say to that?
Darrell: I think what we have been missing over the years in the IPHC was, yeah we had plenty of experience, but we didn't have qualified ministers who had learned the importance of hermeneutics and any knowledge of the languages or any idea of opposing views to their view, who could speak to, like the apostle Paul who walked into the marketplace and sit down with the philosophers of the day and argue Christ. Who could reach the business people of the day who need Christ to; the politicians. The IPHC in years past had been really good at reaching the rural population and lower middle class people with the gospel. Because it was experience based. We offered hope and we offered something that felt different than what you had. I think Doug Beacham has represented a shift for us, in that now, we sort of follow his lead in that our ministers are becoming more educated and we're going to seminary and we don't mind going to a Presbyterian seminary, and we don't mind going to a Baptist seminary. We just understand that if we are really going to reach our culture, that is probably more educated than its ever been; more informed than its ever been because of the media. Everyone has access to so much information that we're going to have to be more prepared and smarter. We are going to have to be willing to read something other than the Bible, and be informed about the views and opinions and cultural discussions. There has been a real healthy shift in the IPHC, though we still have some pockets of "We don't need education" and a lot of our ministers are not educated. We're doing a better job on the conference level. We've got something called the BMI where we're giving ministers Bible college who did not have the opportunity to go to Bible college to be a part of college level classes on theology and overview of New Testament and Old Testament, the prophets, leadership and things like that. We've come a long way.

Brian: Your first pastoral job. You talked about that a little bit. It was a United Methodist Church? You just want to talk about that a little bit.
Darrell: Yeah. It was a 150 year old United Methodist Church who had some exposure to the IPHC in Georgia. They actually contacted the conference offices, the bishop in Georgia and said; "Do you have a pastor? Because we want to be more like you guys. We're tired of tradition." A couple of the people had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So they knew there was more and they just wanted a pastor who believed and could speak into that. So, yeah, I was recommended. I went over. Only 65 people in the church. A little family church. It's amazing the Methodist church, the district superintendent was willing to let in a Pentecostal Holiness guy. But, I'll tell you, the United Methodist Church is so diverse. Oh my gosh! You've got a lot of closet Pentecostals in the United Methodist Church and then you have the liberals. 100% sold out to the liberal cause on the other side of things. It's very diverse.
Brian: Yeah, I think we share quite a common heritage, the IPHC and the Methodists. We both have Wesleyan roots in the holiness and Methodism.
Darrell: Absolutely. If you read the United Methodist book of discipline, we lifted a lot of our doctrinal statements from the book of discipline. There is tremendous agreement there. In fact, a lot of Methodist pastors at the turn of the century, when the Pentecostal revival swept through North Carolina; really swept through the southeast; a lot of Methodist ministers received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues. They were turned away from the church because of that. So they helped form who we are today.

Brian: Did you have another job before you came here?
Darrell: This is my first full-time pastoral position.
Brian: So you went from that little tiny 65-person church to this in 1997 and it was how big?
Darrell: 175.
Brian:  So you more than doubled.
Darrell: It was scary. Yeah, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. Nothing was expected of me in the United Methodist Church except that I preached 3 times, marry, bury. I didn't even run the board meetings. The Methodist church is run by committees. As long as I showed up at their BBQ's and showed up to preach, handled the pastoral care duties...
Brian: They gave you the thumbs up?
Darrell: Yeah. They loved me. Here there was this expectation of growth. There was this expectation of "we can be a church of 1,000". They had this big debt, and these big plans. So it was a very scary ride for me. I wasn't sure I was going to make it. I mean, like I said, I wanted to quit so many times because it was a lot of pressure. Great people here, it was just the pressure of trying to grow this thing. And then you know, everybody wants to grow, but nobody wants to change [BIG LAUGH!] "Oh yeah, we want to be a church of 1,000, but don't inconvenience us, and don't change our music, and don't change our worship style." Well, all that had to change. All of it, you know, to become a church of 1,000 people.

To be continued...